xp_communication | Emails to Angelo, Clarice

to: ((Clarice))
CC: ((Angelo))
Subject: Manuel

Can the both of you just learn to be mature for a little while and -deal- with him in something like a mature fashion? When people he has -actually- hurt can speak to him polietly, I think the two of you can manage to not state publically how much you hate him. Can you espically stop threatening to kill him?

He is -not- likely to back off until you do. I know Manuel too well to even think he might.

Angelo, you should know better. HOW many times has Ms. Frost told us in Speech that being polite to someone we dislike is the fastest way to put them at ill ease?

If you both think you are so much better than he is, .. what is the phrase?

Lay off him. Ignore him, let him alone. The most he can do is be rude to you, and if you can not handle a little rudeness, neither of you are the people I thought you were

Current Mood: furious

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

x-skin.livejournal.com

...What are you talking about?

I haven't said anything at all to Manuel in a good couple of months, except what's publically visible on Amanda's journal. And I thought I was doing a pretty good job of keeping my temper there, for the most part. I certainly haven't threatened to kill him.

From:

x-tarot.livejournal.com

He seems to think so, and it is not as if Manuel -lies-. He is many things, but he is honest. So either you did, or he thought you did.

Either way, you and Clarice both have managed to prevent him from going to see his friend, and I know very well that if he did the same, you would both be having screaming fits.

Regardless of how much you like him or not, he is a person with feelings.

From:

x-skin.livejournal.com

He may not lie, but he overreacts. I'm sure he's being perfectly honest about the way he sees things, but that doesn't mean it's the way it really happened. Things get said in anger sometimes that people don't really mean, and if he means what I think he does, that was months ago. I don't constantly bring up every time he's threatened me, do I?

I wish he could have got to go to Boston - I even asked Amanda if another way couldn't be found for him to get there. It's the idea of spending hours in a moving car with him that bothers me, and I don't think the others would've enjoyed the trip either, if he keeps this up. And as for what Sarah'd say when we got there...

As I understand it, Amanda's going to try and get Shinobi back here for a visit sometime soon, which'll be better all round, no?

From:

x-tarot.livejournal.com

Ah. I see.

So -you- and Clarice and Sarah can not control yourselves, so Manuel gets punished.

That explains a lot of how he feels.

From:

x-skin.livejournal.com

Did you read the comments on Amanda's journal, or are you only seeing what you want to?

From:

x-tarot.livejournal.com

I read everything -quite- clearly.

Regardless of what he says, he is one person who -can not harm you.-

If his WORDS cause you to feel like you must threaten him physically, or be unable to deal with him for a -few- hours, at most, then you are not half the person I thought you were.

From:

x-skin.livejournal.com

...

He gets at me, okay? He always manages to hit right where it gets me most, even without his power.

Yeah, okay, so I'm not worth as much as people seem to think I am. Tell me something I didn't know.

From:

x-tarot.livejournal.com

Right, so because you are too weak to .. what is the phrase?

Suck it up?

then Manuel gets punished.

Right.

And Angelo? While I am aware that you and I are both Catholic, the woe-is-me melodramatic guilt-trip does nothing to improve my opinion of your maturity level.

From:

x-skin.livejournal.com

I never once said he couldn't go. In fact, I don't think I even mentioned how much I don't want to spend time in an enclosed space with him, before all this started.

Give me a minute, and I'll post the e-mail I sent Amanda. I was absolutely prepared to be the one who ended up finding a different way to get there, so he could still go. But then he took himself out of the running.

And if you think it's that, you don't know as much as you think. I've thought like that a hell of lot more times than I've said it. But I'd like to drop that subject now, please.

From:

x-tarot.livejournal.com

Some things can be implied without stating them, Angelo. I am not -stupid-, and your reactions to him in general tend to indicate that you would rather be anywhere than near Manuel.

I -know- it is like that. Unlike you, *I* am getting an A in Speech. Words mean many things, and comments like "I know I am not worth as much as people think I am" , or -whatever- you said exactly, are not said generally without a want for sympathy.

You drew attention to your own flagging self-esteem and self-loathing, and given that we are not espically close, and I am currently argueing with you, there are -few- other reasons for doing so than to try to encourage me to stop poking more holes in your ego.

This is -not- over, by a long length. None of you have been mature about this. I do -not- expect maturity from Manuel, or Clarice. They do not try to put themselves in positions of responsibilty for people. I do expect it from you. You have offered a few times to look over the smaller children, you offered to try to teach us how to fight.

You should know better.

From:

x-skin.livejournal.com

Well, imagine that. Wonder why that could be - and I know full well lying and hiding my feelings isn't my strong point.

I didn't mean we should drop the whole subject, although I'm leaning towards that. I just meant the topic of my "own flagging self-esteem and self-loathing". I drew attention to it? Well, let's take the attention off it now, shall we?

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you should expect maturity from Manuel? That maybe treating him like a 19-year-old would encourage him to act like it?

I spend time with the little kids because I like it and I like them. And I haven't mentioned teaching you all to fight in a long time, because there are others here better qualified than me, and now I'm not so mad and scared, I can see that.

Yeah. Maybe I should know better. But I am younger than him, in years at least, and I do my best to be good around him, even if that means pretending he doesn't exist, but he sure as hell doesn't make it easy. And if you read my post...

Do you have any idea what it's like to take so much responsibility, to fight so hard, for so long, starting way too young, and then find you don't need to anymore? So sometimes I have lapses. I try my best, but Angie, I'm not in a position of responsibility, not really. I'm seventeen, and I'm trying to work out all over again just who I'm going to be now and where I'm going. And I know he is too, but he's allowed his immaturity all the time and nobody really calls him on it. I'm not allowed to be immature even sometimes, however hard I try not to be?

And now I'm getting out of here for a few hours. See you when I get back.

From:

x-tarot.livejournal.com

You may very well be younger than Manuel. I am not convinced he is really nineteen, as he acts far younger. Though, if Jubilee is eighteen, I suppose Manuel could be nineteen.

Making excuses for -why- you are not mature does no good to anyone. It certainly does not make me think you were in the right.

I am -not- singling you out, nor am I singling out Clarice. I gave Manuel as much attention as I gave the both of you. I just -expect- nothing from him.

Do I have any idea what is it like to take responsibility? Yes. Oh, wait, noo, I managed to not have a childhood full of shit. Sometimes, the lot of you who did act like my (and some of the others) can have no opinion over anything you do or say because we actaully ate dinner every night.

EVERYONE calls Manuel on his actions. Ms. Frost, Shinobi, Marie, myself, Nathan. You are just cheerfully ignoring it and appointing yourself his punisher, I suppose.

I -do- understand what it is like to be burdened, Angelo. Not your kind of burden, but a difference in loads to carry does not mean mine is any less heavy.

Consider that perhaps I know what will become of Manuel if people continue to berate him over, and over and over?

From:

x-blink.livejournal.com

to: ((Marie-Ange))
CC: ((Angelo))
Subject: Re: Manuel

I was TRYING to be nice and stop what I thought was going to be a problem. I said nothing about killing him - stabbing is not killing - in fencing (which he claims to do) it only means the other person scores a point.

I wasn't offering to take Angelo with me. He wants to see his friend, FINE. GOOD. SO DO I. I'd like for us all to see our friends without bickering or whatever.

I try to prevent a problem and it just creates more. fuck. everyone says "grow up, be more mature" and I am TRYING. I thought about how I would feel, how he would feel, what would happen, etc. and I decided to remove myself from the problem thinking that would help lessen or end it. and I'm called immature? fuck.

and there is a big difference between hate and dislike. I don't hate him. I would feel bad if he left or died or anything. I don't LIKE him. I don't wish for anything bad to happen to him.

-Clarice

From:

x-tarot.livejournal.com

Short answer, because I have to get back to my homework.

You threatened to stab him. That is not mature, that is not reasonable, that is not right.

I don't care about anything else. You. Threatened. To. Stab. Manuel.