email to Lorna Dane
Mar. 26th, 2004 12:52 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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xp_communicationto: Dane, Lorna
from: D'Ancato, Marie
subject: Angelo's post
I asked Angelo to take it down, yes, as his friend and nothing more. It was way out of line, and he was angry. He posted asking someone to kill Manuel for him and then suggested that Manuel kill himself and save everyone the trouble. Honestly, I don't give a damn what Manuel did to provoke that, no matter how horrible it was, because it wasn't about Manuel that I asked Angelo to take it down, it was about this place and the other people who have to read that kind of thing. I didn't just ask him to take it down, either. I talked to Angelo and took the time to make sure that he had the company and comfort he needed to recover from his confrontation with Manuel.
We know Manuel's a pain in the ass and he's got the self-control of a toddler. He's in intensive therapy and his public temper tantrum was pure childish pique. Him pouting that the only thing that will make him feel better is Angelo's head on a platter is very different than Angelo, who I expect to at least act his age, making a post asking someone to kill Manuel. There's just no comparison between the two. Yes, maybe there's a double standard but it's the double standard that's between adults and children, the competent and the incompetent.
If you want to talk double standards, Angelo has not been held under house arrest against his will and subjected to extreme measures to control his behaviour and abilities, neither has Amanda, nor has Alex, nor anyone else here who's lost control (or never had it) of their abilities or ethics and injured others. I know that Manuel has hurt you, I know he's hurt a lot of people, including at least one person whom I dearly love. On the other hand, he is a horribly damaged and incredibly dangerous person who needs help so that he doesn't keep on doing this to anyone, and part of that is treating him with kindness and decency where it's possible to do so. He is also frightened and hurt and suffering himself in addition to all of that and I can't ignore that as long as he's making an effort to change.
Don't mistake my request to Angelo as an attempt to censor him in favour of Manuel. Plain and simple, that had to do with the way this place has been running and given the amount of furor over what he did post, you can well imagine what would have happened if he'd left it up. I asked Angelo to remove that post as his friend who knows him and knows what he's like when he's not angry and I would rather have seen him remove the post then than apologize for it later.
Also, please don't assume that because I'm attempting to support and nurture Manuel right now that I condone anything that he's done. Of all the people in this house, he probably frightens me most, but I cannot ignore my conviction that this is something I have to do. I'm sorry if people see it as me siding with Manuel. It's not like that, I don't see sides. I see a lot of people in pain and I see a lot of damage, and I'm doing what I can where I think it will do the most good for everyone.
Marie
from: D'Ancato, Marie
subject: Angelo's post
I asked Angelo to take it down, yes, as his friend and nothing more. It was way out of line, and he was angry. He posted asking someone to kill Manuel for him and then suggested that Manuel kill himself and save everyone the trouble. Honestly, I don't give a damn what Manuel did to provoke that, no matter how horrible it was, because it wasn't about Manuel that I asked Angelo to take it down, it was about this place and the other people who have to read that kind of thing. I didn't just ask him to take it down, either. I talked to Angelo and took the time to make sure that he had the company and comfort he needed to recover from his confrontation with Manuel.
We know Manuel's a pain in the ass and he's got the self-control of a toddler. He's in intensive therapy and his public temper tantrum was pure childish pique. Him pouting that the only thing that will make him feel better is Angelo's head on a platter is very different than Angelo, who I expect to at least act his age, making a post asking someone to kill Manuel. There's just no comparison between the two. Yes, maybe there's a double standard but it's the double standard that's between adults and children, the competent and the incompetent.
If you want to talk double standards, Angelo has not been held under house arrest against his will and subjected to extreme measures to control his behaviour and abilities, neither has Amanda, nor has Alex, nor anyone else here who's lost control (or never had it) of their abilities or ethics and injured others. I know that Manuel has hurt you, I know he's hurt a lot of people, including at least one person whom I dearly love. On the other hand, he is a horribly damaged and incredibly dangerous person who needs help so that he doesn't keep on doing this to anyone, and part of that is treating him with kindness and decency where it's possible to do so. He is also frightened and hurt and suffering himself in addition to all of that and I can't ignore that as long as he's making an effort to change.
Don't mistake my request to Angelo as an attempt to censor him in favour of Manuel. Plain and simple, that had to do with the way this place has been running and given the amount of furor over what he did post, you can well imagine what would have happened if he'd left it up. I asked Angelo to remove that post as his friend who knows him and knows what he's like when he's not angry and I would rather have seen him remove the post then than apologize for it later.
Also, please don't assume that because I'm attempting to support and nurture Manuel right now that I condone anything that he's done. Of all the people in this house, he probably frightens me most, but I cannot ignore my conviction that this is something I have to do. I'm sorry if people see it as me siding with Manuel. It's not like that, I don't see sides. I see a lot of people in pain and I see a lot of damage, and I'm doing what I can where I think it will do the most good for everyone.
Marie
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Subject: Standards
Date: 2004-03-27 01:52 pm (UTC)My problem with that argument is that Manuel isn't a child. He's a poorly socialized adult with little self-control. And even if he were a child, well, you don't let that kind of thing pass without comment for a child anymore than you do for an adult. In fact, you should be more vigilant about correction. I'm not suggesting we flog him in public everyday. I'm not even suggesting he be publically scolded. However, I do think that the appearance of allowing his post to ride while Angelo's was removed is alarmingly permissive. It sends a message that, without knowing the intent, is one of leniency and not compassion.
Please don't cast Alex at me in that manner. Hindsight being what it is, you tempt me to say that I'd rather have seen him going through what Manuel is than to have ever had to deal with what you yourself helped rescue him from. Knowing that I could have prevented Alex's slavery is... But I didn't. Because I thought it better to allow him to deal with it on his own and support his decisions, to back off in due respect for his wishes. I was wrong and both he and I paid for it. But that's my own chat to have with Samson. (As an entirely side note, Amanda is currently under quite the house arrest. And is making progress, so clearly there is something to that.)
I'm well aware that my response to this situation does carry a bias and I'm willing to admit that my feelings toward Manuel are something less than charitable. (I'm interested in what it is that you think happened between he and I. Presumably this is something he told you?) So my opinion can be taken as just that, an opinion. But I am a reasonably intelligent adult and I think that at the very least, it might be helpful to speak to Samson and get a basic set of rules for us to all follow. The more we know, the better we can make this environment for all the students, not just the broken ones.
--Lorna
Re: Subject: Standards
Date: 2004-03-27 02:44 pm (UTC)I did not "cast" Alex at you, and I resent the implication that I would do so. He is one of a number of students, Bobby included now that I remember correctly (how I could have forgotten some of the incidents with him is beyond me) who've had control issues. I've been injured in three incidents when people at this school have lost control. I would not be alive in one case and would be badly scarred at the least in the other two cases if it weren't for my mutation or the fortunate harmony between my mutation and Logan's. None of the people involved in those incidents have experienced any official consequences for their mistakes.
I asked Angelo to take his post down as his friend, and not a staff member. I know him well enough that he would not have said something like that without serious provocation and he would have regretted it later. He's welcome to be angry. He's even welcome to say he wants Manuel's head on a platter. He's not welcome to ask the other students to kill Manuel and he's not welcome to encourage Manuel to kill himself, especially in the light of Amanda's recent attempt. That's just wrong and that's not who Angelo is and I know it, probably better than anyone.
Manuel has said nothing to me about anything in his past with you save that he hurt you and does not yet grasp what he did wrong, though he is attempting to do so. He has expressed the repeated concern that you may want him dead, that you might be willing to harm him directly, and his fear of going into the kitchen alone. Having been with him at the time that he made those statements, I can assure you that he was not being dramatic, but was definitely lacking in perspective and suffering from some paranoia, probably due to being "head blind".
Manuel's posts are in the context of his therapy journal. I'm sure that he discusses them with Dr. Samson. If you would like to bring the issue of whether or not he should be censored for his words to Charles and Dr. Samson, I do suggest that you do so.
Marie
Re: Subject: Standards
Date: 2004-03-28 02:28 pm (UTC)I'm over-sensitive when it comes to Alex. Raw wounds and newly healed scars, you know how it is. What I percieved as the somewhat derisive manner in which you referred to the manner that his case (and others) had been handled--as though it was some type of boon rather than a blunder--was particularly offensive. I apologize for responding from the reaction of my heart rather than the reasoning of my head. Obviously, I've also been in the position of nearly dying because of someone else's control issues so I can appreciate your point.
I understand that you meant to talk to Angelo as friend. My point is that you are staff and you asked a student to censor his post. It's intent that makes the ethic but it is the appearance that forms the social thought.
Manuel, oddly enough, doesn't have the slightest idea what I'm feeling about him. He and I have not interacted in weeks. I have not so much as seen him since the whole potion crisis. I'm not certain how he came to the conclusion I wished to harm him as I'd much rather never have to deal with him directly again. Personally, I don't like seeing his therapy played out on the journal system. Rationally, I have no objection to it. Again, my problem seems to be heart over head.
Look, if something more is being done about him than what I see, then hallelujah. His recovery and socialization isn't just necessary for him but for everyone else around here too. Again, my concern was the message it sent to the rest of the students.
--Lorna