Email to Dayspring, Nathan
May. 12th, 2004 11:27 amFrom: de la Rocha, Manuel
To: Dayspring, Nathan
Subject: Ethics
So what, precisely, is wrong with my ethics? They're supple enough to deal with changing realities, and ... well, that's all that really counts.
They're quite supple. I am growing adept at adapting them to changing circumstances. This is how things _should_ be.
Manuel
To: Dayspring, Nathan
Subject: Ethics
So what, precisely, is wrong with my ethics? They're supple enough to deal with changing realities, and ... well, that's all that really counts.
They're quite supple. I am growing adept at adapting them to changing circumstances. This is how things _should_ be.
Manuel
you would disturb people less...
Date: 2004-05-12 12:14 pm (UTC)But apart from that, I'm interested and possibly a little encouraged. What do you see as the benefit to you in wearing that dampener?
Nathan
I think...
Date: 2004-05-12 12:15 pm (UTC)But it _is_ a game, that's the beauty of it? It's an elaborate game - or would you prefer I refer to it as a dance? It is move and countermove, action and reaction.
It's glorious, really.
Manuel
okay...
Date: 2004-05-12 12:26 pm (UTC)Have you ever heard the lifeboat question? If you're on a sinking ship and escape in a lifeboat with a pregnant woman, a great artist, a child, and a scientist with the cure for cancer, and it's going to sink unless one of you gets out, who goes in the water?
Nathan
The artist.
Date: 2004-05-12 12:30 pm (UTC)The artist, in this scenario, is useless. Get rid of him!
Manuel
interesting...
Date: 2004-05-12 12:32 pm (UTC)Either myself, or the person in the boat who swims the best.
Nathan
And that's your choice to make
Date: 2004-05-12 12:33 pm (UTC)You're old. Step aside for somebody younger.
;)
Did I use the smiley right? Amanda has been showing them to me.
Manuel
I see...
Date: 2004-05-12 12:45 pm (UTC)Put Amanda in the place of the artist, then.
Nathan
Not fair!
Date: 2004-05-12 12:47 pm (UTC)Do you have a _point_? I'll toss them _all_ off the boat if Amanda and I get to live.
It's that simple.
Manuel
actually, very fair...
Date: 2004-05-12 12:52 pm (UTC)But again, we come back to the idea that your choices--no, that life is simple. Do you really believe that it is, deep down, or do you just wish it was?
Nathan
Life is as simple or as complex as you make it.
Date: 2004-05-12 12:53 pm (UTC)Manuel
and that's what we call...
Date: 2004-05-12 01:06 pm (UTC)I think you want it to be simple, Manuel. I think you see in black and white - it reflects in all of your philosophical constructions - and I think it terrifies you when you have to face up to the fact that the world isn't like that. So you call it a game, or you start babbling about how your life is yours and no one is ever going to take your freedom away from you again.
You're not much more, in those moments, than an abused animal reacting out of fear, on instinct. And before you take umbrage at me insulting you, that's a description I would apply to myself at some moments, even now.
Nathan
Name-calling?
Date: 2004-05-12 01:11 pm (UTC)I am sorry if my wanting to be me offends you. If my desire to protect those I am close to offends you. If my refusal to throw my life away for someone else offends you.
There is really not much else I can say about it. I have my own way of living, and you have yours. I prefer Brits, you go in for Scots. You like redheads, I apparently like bad dyejobs.
I do what I must, and you ... I do not know. Once, I would have throught that you did whatever you had to, but now? I do not know what I think.
Manuel
not name-calling...
Date: 2004-05-12 01:20 pm (UTC)I'm not saying you need to throw your life away for anyone, Manuel. I'm certainly not saying that you shouldn't protect those you care about. In the end, though, it's the 'wanting to be you' that's the trickiest of the three.
If you damage the lives of people around you, trying to be you... that's wrong. Call it my opinion if you want, but that won't change the facts. One person's rights stop when their fist, either literal or figurative, impacts with another person's nose. You may reject that position, but there's a reason it's survived in one form or another for so long.
Nathan
I do reject it
Date: 2004-05-12 01:22 pm (UTC)Why do other people's rights to think malicious thoughts or want to do me harm not end at my brain?
Your little analogy works fine for humans, but for those of us with gifts, it breaks down.
Manuel
here's a thought...
Date: 2004-05-12 01:30 pm (UTC)You're a psi, you're not a child.
Nathan
Oh, I get it now.
Date: 2004-05-12 01:32 pm (UTC)My right to swing my fist, as you say, ends at other people's metaphoric noses. But their right to swing their fist stops - nowhere?
Is that it?
And what, precisely, did I do that was so bad that I have earned your venom?
Manuel
well, let's see...
Date: 2004-05-12 01:44 pm (UTC)As for venom... if you'd ask me this last week, I could have given you a list. I suspect it would have started with Angie's name. Lately, though, I find my perspective has been altered. Too much Askani philosophy, maybe. They have their own opinions, I'm finding, and they can't help but sway mine.
So, what do I feel. Fear, still - old habits die hard. But I also feel... pity, also a certain resolution. If you don't learn, you're not going to make it.
Nathan
No.
Date: 2004-05-12 01:47 pm (UTC)So you let the Askani, whoever they are, define you now? How very interesting. Have I been talking to you, or to them?
Is there even a difference anymore, if they've altered you so profoundly?
Maybe it is _YOU_ who needs the dampener around one wrist, Nathan, not I.
Manuel
you can't have it both ways...
Date: 2004-05-12 01:52 pm (UTC)And you've been talking to all of us, Manuel. Interesting: I don't think anyone else has twigged to that yet. But in all the things I've thought about you, I've never thought you weren't perceptive.
As for me wearing a dampener... a weak parry, Manuel. Very weak.
Nathan
Sure I can
Date: 2004-05-12 01:54 pm (UTC)Well, it seems that your ability to keep people who aren't even alive yet from punching your nose is an order of magnitude worse than my problem with keeping my time-contemporaries from doing it, isn't it?
Manuel
they're not punching my nose...
Date: 2004-05-12 01:56 pm (UTC)It's really kind of nifty. Care to take this offline? You could always come meet them.
Nathan
Pass, thanks.
Date: 2004-05-12 01:57 pm (UTC)I'm trying to be me. I don't want to be them any more than I want to be you.
And there's scant difference between those two - just your perspective. Take it from someone who knows.
Manuel
your loss...
Date: 2004-05-12 01:58 pm (UTC)Nathan
For you, perhaps.
Date: 2004-05-12 01:59 pm (UTC)Manuel